|
Post by Captain Zedo on Sept 19, 2011 7:44:36 GMT -5
I helped a little with your ranking putting you to senior member. That's just a couple of hundred posts from God status.
Good to hear that you've taken up real piloting. What part of the world are you flying in? I've always envied the guys that had small planes.
|
|
|
Post by Pilot on Sept 24, 2011 21:49:56 GMT -5
Hey nemesis! How have you been, though you may remember me as Dark better. lol.
|
|
|
Post by Hammer on Oct 1, 2011 21:23:58 GMT -5
Hey, don't feel bad, my status got dumped also. Good luck with your flying. Once you get settled in, try flying gliders. You'll get hooked and then have to get a glider pilot add-on. I've been flying gliders for about four years now. Love it!
|
|
|
Post by rotary on Oct 2, 2011 11:29:20 GMT -5
Good to hear there are more airborne people here But nemisis, are you actually allowed to work commercially with PPL only? At least that is what I understand of a private pilot.. Gotta love bushflying though, one of the few airborne jobs left that still require flying skills. You fly in Australia?
|
|
|
Post by Programlog on Oct 3, 2011 23:32:25 GMT -5
Hey! Best of luck with the PPL! Astounds me how many pilots are here. I gotta say though, nothing beats the experience of flying gliders. Nothing compares getting a glider into a spin
|
|
|
Post by rotary on Oct 4, 2011 4:47:35 GMT -5
Gotta love 'the flyers retreat'
|
|
|
Post by Pilot on Oct 15, 2011 20:24:14 GMT -5
Only 18,000 a year... Way too little pay for what they do!
I don't know much about chemtrails can you share anything else about them?
I'm assuming they are a by product of the jet engine's exhaust?
Is it exhausted as fumes, or liquid, or would it be like mercury, does it float or sink before cooling after cooling?
Depending on numerous different possibilities and probabilities, would not what ever falls down of people be too minuet to worry about, without decades of consistent exposure?
|
|
|
Post by duncan on Oct 17, 2011 1:46:44 GMT -5
Gotta love those conspiracies, and the fanaticism of their believers.
They're contrails (for condensation). The nozzles are likely fire extinguishers for if the engine catches fire. But then I am no pilot.
|
|
|
Post by duncan on Oct 20, 2011 2:12:28 GMT -5
Thats a yes to water, condensation, H2O
Probably you know jetfuel is hydrocarbon. Probably you know as well that oxygen is O2 is in the air we breath, and in the air a jet engine breathes.
Mix hydrocarbons and oxygen, add a spark, and what do you get, pure H2O and CO2 if you got the mixure right.
That is H2O as in water, condensation.
Now, how much fuel does a jet engine burn per second?
|
|
|
Post by duncan on Oct 20, 2011 13:58:05 GMT -5
i'll try again
1. nobody is spraying water 2. i was not talking about hydrogen
i was talking about hydrocarbons, chemical compounds composed of the element C (for carbon) and H (for hydrogen), hence hydrocarbon.
quote from wikipedia:
What I tried to explain before, but without using enough words (sorry for that), is that the water that condenses in the contrails is emitted by the engines. That water is the product of the burning of the jetfuel. Thats right, the jet engines of an aeroplane emit water because they burn jetfuel. No other chemicals needed.
Wikipedia mentions jetfuel is a mixture of hydrocarbons, with carbon chain length from 5 to 16. Exact mixture depends on the type, there is Jet A, Jet A-1 and Jet B.
To keep things simple, lets take one hydrocarbon from that range, lets choose the hydrocarbon with chain length of ten, decane, C10H22. Complete combustion of a hydrocarbon with oxygen gives solely CO2 and H2O. For complete combustion of decane we need 10x2 + 22/2 = 31 oxygen atoms. An oxygen molecule has 2 oxygen atoms. So lets multiply everything by two to continue to keep it simple. Then our reaction formula looks like this:
2 C10H22 + 31 O2 -> 20 CO2 + 22 H2O
That is 22 water molecules for every 2 decane molecules burned.
You will however find that that equals to 1.02 liter water for every 1 liter decane burned.
Those numbers (for room temperature). H2O is 18 grams per mol. Decane is 142 grams per mol. The density of water is 1000 gram per liter. The density of decane is 730 gram per liter. That makes 0.018 liter per mol for water and 0.195 liter per mol for decane. (0.018 x 22) / (0.195 x 2) = 1.02
So, if your boeing 747-400 packs over 200000 liter of fuel and burns that on a twelfe hour flight, that equals to 200000/(12x60x60) = 4.6 liter per second. Or 4.7 liter of water per second formed. Probably depending on atmospheric conditions that may condense in a contrail. Even if the water does not condense immediately it may hang there for a while up in the sky and condense later, or not at all.
|
|
|
Post by duncan on Oct 22, 2011 5:51:56 GMT -5
there is no need for a seperate tank of decane, since the story for decane is the same for the other hydrocarbons in jet fuel. They have similar names depending on their carbon chain length. The general formula is CnH2n+2.
C5H12, pentane C6H14, hexane C7H16, heptane C8H18, octane C9H20, nonane C10H22, decane C11H24, undecane (wikipedia: It is used as a mild sex attractant for various types of moths...) C12H26, dodecane C13H28, tridecane C14H30, tetradecane C15H32, pentadecane C16H34, hexadecane
The longer the carbon backbone, the higher the melting temperature. From tetradecane up, these alkanes have a melting temperature above the freezing point of water (for the pure compound). But will remain in solution in a mixture with shorter chain alkanes.
Besides these saturated alkanes, there are other hydrocarbons in jetfuels, plus all kind of additives to preserve it better.
Some trivia. The fatty acid derivative of hexadecane is called palmitic acid (from palm tree), it is used in handsoap and also first generation biofuel. In tropical asia they are chopping down rainforest to replace with palm trees. The lipids in our body are mostly C16 side chains.
|
|
|
Post by duncan on Oct 22, 2011 6:15:26 GMT -5
I would say the first video is some atmospheric condition causing water vapour that is already present in the sky to condense by the disruption the plane creates. You can alse that happening when fighters take sharp turns. Depending on how much water vapour present it will condense or not, hence it seems they stop spraying and continue later again. But notice also that the second event is less intense and pulsates somewhat - i doubt it is an operator playing with the buttons. I do have to add that I know little about atmospheric stuff. This video is something that actually looks like a intentional release. www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Yk_fnLMnzc&feature=relatedThe german video - a media story that wants to be shocking and revealing and is very one-sided - only links the forming of clouds to a military excercise happening at the same time. Call that a smoking gun, or a coincidence. They did mention they spray metal particles to jam radar. Which I agree is not a pleasant thought over densily populated areas.
|
|
|
Post by rotary on Oct 22, 2011 13:38:16 GMT -5
I would say the first video is some atmospheric condition causing water vapour that is already present in the sky to condense by the disruption the plane creates. You can alse that happening when fighters take sharp turns. Depending on how much water vapour present it will condense or not, hence it seems they stop spraying and continue later again. But notice also that the second event is less intense and pulsates somewhat - i doubt it is an operator playing with the buttons. I do have to add that I know little about atmospheric stuff. This video is something that actually looks like a intentional release. www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Yk_fnLMnzc&feature=relatedThe german video - a media story that wants to be shocking and revealing and is very one-sided - only links the forming of clouds to a military excercise happening at the same time. Call that a smoking gun, or a coincidence. They did mention they spray metal particles to jam radar. Which I agree is not a pleasant thought over densily populated areas. Although I won’t say whether it is true or false, I can maybe explain something about the condensation. The condensation in the first video is (looks) like the normal condensation that happens when static pressure lowers. The lower the pressure or temperature of air, the less water (vapor) it can contain. Above a wing both happens. The air accelerates, reduces in pressure and in temperature. If the air has a high relative humidity and is (therefore) already close to its saturation temperature (‘wet bulb temperature’), a slight reduction in temperature or pressure will cause the water in the air to condensate. At the roots of the wing the reduction in pressure and temperature is most (wing is the thickest there), and therefore it is best visible there. Once the water is condensed, the time it takes to evaporate again depends on the relative humidity and intensity of the press/temp drop caused by the wings (or any cause). With jet-fighters taking tight turns the intensity of the press/temp drop is quite big, since they need this drop (lift) to ‘suck’ them through the corner. This is also the reason why after the wing it disappears, and most often doesn’t create permanent trails, since the resulting return to normal pressure/temperature is enough for immediate evaporation. Maybe I missed something, but the metal parts the video talks about sound like Chaff, small aluminum strips/wires not harmful for humans. Maybe they used metal powder, which could be unhealthy however. I don't know the details of that. Chaffs are used for dispersing radar-signals and creating fake responds, so it is no more than logic that a weather-radar, which measures the reflection of a signal that reflects on water drops (clouds), reacts heavily on pure reflections on aluminum. One small cloud of chaff can create the image of all clouds in one direction, over the whole distance the radar reaches, since some signals also reflect within the chaff-cloud, to finaly return to the radar with a delay, making the radar think it is a reflection from a far cloud. Of course I don’t say that chemtrails don’t exist, or that some projects seem quite tricky (like HAARP), however I trust the milieu-movement just as much as military movements. Friends of me sometimes work with GreenPeace (=filthy rich), and there are certainly very strong points, however the story is often created and brought with biased information (willingly). There is a lobbying power behind it that has powers at the scale of financial giants, if not more…
|
|
|
Post by Pilot on Oct 22, 2011 16:01:19 GMT -5
Metal particles... that's referred to as chaff... While we are on conspiracies, Aliens? Bah, I find it more likely that they are classified military aircraft. Imagine what the Blackbird would have been like before it was released to public knowledge. Knowledge is power. Truth is the new religion. I can make it spill from this page you wont be able to sleep at night...i will drown you with honesty. "Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it. Do not believe in anything simply because it is spoken and rumored by many. Do not believe in anything simply because it is found written in your religious books. Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders. Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for many generations. But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it." Hmm, Did Buddhists even read that? Ironically they are in general, quite single minded. Read up on it, know what a Pagoda is? It didn't state it in that article but they also enshrine they ancestors wealth in them. [Rant]It has been said many times, many ways, "Knowledge is power."( Francis Bacon ) However I say, be careful what you believe true, "It is true that you may fool all of the people some of the time; you can even fool some of the people all of the time; but you can’t fool all of the people all of the time." ( President Abraham Lincoln ) "If you believe everything you read, better not to read." ( Japanese proverb ) *Italics: Words I added for easier understanding. Personally, I try to never trust anyones word as absolute, unless I trust them absolutely, and still I form my own opinion about it. "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." ( Aristotle )
|
|