Post by Deleted on Oct 29, 2016 9:54:56 GMT -5
As most of you know, the Hardwar community have been trying to acquire the source for around 15 years now.
I know that certain people have done a bit of digging and research here and there and hit upon seemingly dead ends.
I've even done that myself in the past, as soon as you start looking into it, you realise that nobody really knows who owns the source copyright any more as it's just a mess of loose ends and even Ciaran Gultnieks and Ian Martin have in the past alluded to the fact that they have the source but can't release it due to those exact copyright problems.
I recently played No Man's Sky hoping for perhaps a modern version of Hardwar in a way. I ended up disappointed and reinstalled Hardwar again (I keep returning to the game every few years these days). Even nearly 20 years on it installed without a hitch on Win10 and plays perfectly. (Well, apart from the Joystick button numbers being one down from what they show in Windows.
Anyway, I thought I'd have one last proper attempt at acquiring the source code.
The first thing I did was look at the facts I already knew.
www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=292650&slSrcId=activity%3A5797005754795835393&fromEmail=&slType=NPU-REG&ut=32CdG2Xz20TSM1&trk=eml-comm_nus-heroskill-pic-0-F1-2[/quote]
I managed to speak with an employee of Urbanscan and acquired Ian's email address. I also spoke with someone who had recently interviewed Ian and confirmed the address. I wrote an email to Ian to ask him if he had the rights to Hardwar and whether he would consider selling them or if he was doing anything with the IP, or re-releasing etc. I waited for a reply.
See without the game rights themselves, you can't legally do anything with the source.
Whilst I waited for a reply, I looked into acquiring the source from the Bona Vacantia Department (BVD) in the case that ownership of the source reverted to the Crown.
www.gov.uk/guidance/buy-intellectual-property-bvc8
Basically, you need to provide the name, company number and last registered office of the dissolved company. Evidence that they owned it, why you want it, what you intend to do with it, details of any past or current disputes (like Ian Stewart perhaps wanting to use it) and details of your solicitor.
Then and only then will they decide whether you can purchase it. That is after they value it. The absolute minimum would be £1300 + VAT and the maximum could be £10K+
It was at this point I emailed Ciaran to ask if he did indeed still have the source and would still release it if I acquired the rights. I told him what I intended to do with the BVD also, and that I had contacted Ian Stewart.
Then I went to Companies House to do some SR digging.
wck2.companieshouse.gov.uk
(check only 'dissolved names' and enter 'software refinery' as company name)
You have to pay £1 for each file but the company's filings are all there. I was hoping to find an itemisation of belongings during liquidisation that included the source code. All I could come up with were office items and assets but nothing directly regarding source code.
Then I went to the gazette:
www.thegazette.co.uk/notice/L-56785-160
www.thegazette.co.uk/notice/L-56820-118
www.thegazette.co.uk/notice/L-56820-119
www.thegazette.co.uk/notice/L-56820-120
www.thegazette.co.uk/notice/L-57941-144
This had public notices for the announcements of the appointment of liquidators and meetings of creditors etc.
My thinking was that perhaps the ownership transferred to the liquidators and I could look to purchase it from them?
Could it be that simple?
In a word, No.
Turns out that Gerald Krasner sold the insolvency arm of Bartfields to Begbies Traynor Group shortly after wrapping up SR.
Luckily he was still a partner there. I contacted him directly to ask if he had any details, or had ownership of the source etc.
I waited for a reply.
Ciaran got back to me and in the nicest way possible said that he thought I was wasting my time with the BVD thing. He said he doubted that Ian would get back to me, that he was 100% sure Ian had the source and that without the game rights, you wouldn't be able to do anything with the source without risking infringement on Ian's rights. We talked back and forth and he said that it would be easier to start from scratch, avoiding the whole debacle regarding rights.
He also said that quite possibly he would re-write the game himself as it is his favourite game, that it only reached a fraction of his perception of what it could have been and that he's been thinking about doing it for the last 15 years.
He also made it clear that there were no promises and if he couldn't fund it, he certainly wouldn't bother.
We also spoke of a couple of possibilities off the record, but that is where they shall stay.
Needless to say, this was the most promising news I had received so far about anything happening with Hardwar. The timing was strange as he was moving house and getting rid of a lot of stuff including the copy of Hardwar I mentioned in the other thread. I asked if he'd sign it and he said yeah. I thought I'd try and drum up a bit of interest so I posted it here and also went to Twitter.
Mark Hardisty from www.gamesbritannia.com/ has recently released an amazing book (www.agremlinintheworks.co.uk)about the entire history of Gremlin Graphics. As part of that, he seemed to have done some research on Hardwar and tweeted about having installed it recently. I thought he was the perfect person to tweet to about the fact Ciaran has the signed copy up for grabs.
Over the next few days, I got talking to Mark since I've always been interested in Gremlin. (I'm from Sheffield and always wanted to work there growing up!) Mark mentioned that he had just been interviewing Ciaran for the expansion disk (a free episodic PDF of extra content for the book) and that he's tried to get a hold of M.I.A Ian Martin to no avail.
How weird was that? Of the twitter users in all the world, I pick the one who has 'just' interviewed Ciaran.
Anyway, Mark turned out to be a great guy, he really pushes programming with kids education and has a genuine passion for retro games. I bought the book (there's a great spread on Hardwar with Patrick Phelan, Adrian Carless and some of the Gremlin QA team) and then found out Mark was doing an event in town for the book.
I told Mark I'd get him a pint if he signed my book when I came down. His reply was that there would perhaps be people more worthy of me getting their signatures there. (Shameless plug here but it is a great book btw. Funnily enough, even Mark is after the HW source in order to preserve it. He wants to do that with as many games as he can get his hands on).
Meanwhile, Gerald Krasner got back to me. There is a confidentiality clause at the bottom of the email, but this is not exactly the most sensitive information and I suspect that it comes as standard on all Begbies Traynor email. If a problem should arise however, I take full responsibility:
[/ul]
Anyone got ten grand to spare?
Also, Ciaran expressed his reluctance to resurrect the company as I had already mentioned this possibility with him. I informed Gerald that this course would not be being pursued and thanked him for his time.
Back on Twitter, Mark announced who would be attending the event. There would be some ex-gremlin programmers (including Ash Bennett and George Allen) and also the founders of Gremlin. Yes, Kevin Norburn and Ian Stewart.
The coincidences were stacking up. I was going to meet Ian! Also it turns out my current boss used to play Golf with Ian and Stephen Marshall Hilton, 20 odd years ago though.
I won the bid on the signed Hardwar. Ciaran asked me what to write. I said "Dear Lee, I hereby grant you the copyright to Hardwar, yours, Ian Stewart"
He laughed and said I'd have to ask Ian. I said funny you should say that!
Then Ian got back to me!
So I told him I was attending the event and we arranged to meet there. I had a great evening (Friday 21st October 2016) and had a good chat with Ian as well as enjoying the rest of Mark's event, playing C64 games and chatting to everyone there.
Ian was totally the opposite of what I was expecting. I guess with my experience of certain businessmen, I expected a hardened man who wanted to get to the point. He actually came across as very humble and eager to listen. It was a pleasure to speak with him.
I spoke about the possibility of him releasing it 'as is'. I mentioned that the videos work locally and that the main exe can be ran with command line parameters for everything if you wanted to avoid using the hardman.exe for any reason and also that you'd need a wrapper like ogg-winmm (https://github.com/bangstk/ogg-winmm/releases) for CD Audio.
He actually genuinely seems to want some people capable of using the source to bring everything up to date with better visuals etc and to build on the game rather than just doing a straight up digital download.
So there you go. That is everything I have managed to do so far. And all the information I can give you.
I told Ian that Ciaran would be the man to speak to regarding the source. Maybe a few of the old modders like Wez could help if things manage to get off the ground? Or Andrew Fenn? Tim Howgego etc?
I've told Ciaran about what Ian said and asked his opinion on whether it would be mutually beneficial for Ian and himself to have a chat. Ciaran is away atm though and also moving house as I mentioned so I think he'll get back to me when he isn't so busy.
I think he's also looking at NMS and Elite Dangerous for reference as to what a modern day version could look like.
Ian and I should be talking further via email about possibilities.
As always, don't get your hopes up! I'm sorry I have to stress that. It is the most promising news for a long time, I think, but there are no guarantees.
I know that certain people have done a bit of digging and research here and there and hit upon seemingly dead ends.
I've even done that myself in the past, as soon as you start looking into it, you realise that nobody really knows who owns the source copyright any more as it's just a mess of loose ends and even Ciaran Gultnieks and Ian Martin have in the past alluded to the fact that they have the source but can't release it due to those exact copyright problems.
I recently played No Man's Sky hoping for perhaps a modern version of Hardwar in a way. I ended up disappointed and reinstalled Hardwar again (I keep returning to the game every few years these days). Even nearly 20 years on it installed without a hitch on Win10 and plays perfectly. (Well, apart from the Joystick button numbers being one down from what they show in Windows.
Anyway, I thought I'd have one last proper attempt at acquiring the source code.
The first thing I did was look at the facts I already knew.
- Software Refinery wrote and owned source rights originally.
- Gremlin Published and owned game rights (i.e. compiled finished product as a distro).
- Interplay licenced from Gremlin to distribute in the States.
- SR liquidated, Source rights unknown.
- Gremlin bought by Infogrames.
- Infogrames reincorporated as Atari.
www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=292650&slSrcId=activity%3A5797005754795835393&fromEmail=&slType=NPU-REG&ut=32CdG2Xz20TSM1&trk=eml-comm_nus-heroskill-pic-0-F1-2[/quote]
I managed to speak with an employee of Urbanscan and acquired Ian's email address. I also spoke with someone who had recently interviewed Ian and confirmed the address. I wrote an email to Ian to ask him if he had the rights to Hardwar and whether he would consider selling them or if he was doing anything with the IP, or re-releasing etc. I waited for a reply.
See without the game rights themselves, you can't legally do anything with the source.
Whilst I waited for a reply, I looked into acquiring the source from the Bona Vacantia Department (BVD) in the case that ownership of the source reverted to the Crown.
www.gov.uk/guidance/buy-intellectual-property-bvc8
Basically, you need to provide the name, company number and last registered office of the dissolved company. Evidence that they owned it, why you want it, what you intend to do with it, details of any past or current disputes (like Ian Stewart perhaps wanting to use it) and details of your solicitor.
Then and only then will they decide whether you can purchase it. That is after they value it. The absolute minimum would be £1300 + VAT and the maximum could be £10K+
It was at this point I emailed Ciaran to ask if he did indeed still have the source and would still release it if I acquired the rights. I told him what I intended to do with the BVD also, and that I had contacted Ian Stewart.
Then I went to Companies House to do some SR digging.
wck2.companieshouse.gov.uk
(check only 'dissolved names' and enter 'software refinery' as company name)
You have to pay £1 for each file but the company's filings are all there. I was hoping to find an itemisation of belongings during liquidisation that included the source code. All I could come up with were office items and assets but nothing directly regarding source code.
Then I went to the gazette:
www.thegazette.co.uk/notice/L-56785-160
www.thegazette.co.uk/notice/L-56820-118
www.thegazette.co.uk/notice/L-56820-119
www.thegazette.co.uk/notice/L-56820-120
www.thegazette.co.uk/notice/L-57941-144
This had public notices for the announcements of the appointment of liquidators and meetings of creditors etc.
Gerald Maurice Krasner, of Bartfields (UK) Limited, Burley House, 12 Clarendon Road, Leeds LS2 9NF, an Insolvency Practitioner duly qualified under the Insolvency Act 1986, be and is hereby appointed the Liquidator of the Company for the purposes of such winding-up.” At a Meeting of Creditors, duly convened and held pursuant to sections 98, 99 and 100 of the Insolvency Act 1986, the Resolutions for Voluntary Liquidation and the appointment of Gerald Maurice Krasner as Liquidator were confirmed. C E Gultnieks, Chairman
My thinking was that perhaps the ownership transferred to the liquidators and I could look to purchase it from them?
Could it be that simple?
In a word, No.
Turns out that Gerald Krasner sold the insolvency arm of Bartfields to Begbies Traynor Group shortly after wrapping up SR.
Luckily he was still a partner there. I contacted him directly to ask if he had any details, or had ownership of the source etc.
I waited for a reply.
Ciaran got back to me and in the nicest way possible said that he thought I was wasting my time with the BVD thing. He said he doubted that Ian would get back to me, that he was 100% sure Ian had the source and that without the game rights, you wouldn't be able to do anything with the source without risking infringement on Ian's rights. We talked back and forth and he said that it would be easier to start from scratch, avoiding the whole debacle regarding rights.
He also said that quite possibly he would re-write the game himself as it is his favourite game, that it only reached a fraction of his perception of what it could have been and that he's been thinking about doing it for the last 15 years.
He also made it clear that there were no promises and if he couldn't fund it, he certainly wouldn't bother.
We also spoke of a couple of possibilities off the record, but that is where they shall stay.
Needless to say, this was the most promising news I had received so far about anything happening with Hardwar. The timing was strange as he was moving house and getting rid of a lot of stuff including the copy of Hardwar I mentioned in the other thread. I asked if he'd sign it and he said yeah. I thought I'd try and drum up a bit of interest so I posted it here and also went to Twitter.
Mark Hardisty from www.gamesbritannia.com/ has recently released an amazing book (www.agremlinintheworks.co.uk)about the entire history of Gremlin Graphics. As part of that, he seemed to have done some research on Hardwar and tweeted about having installed it recently. I thought he was the perfect person to tweet to about the fact Ciaran has the signed copy up for grabs.
Over the next few days, I got talking to Mark since I've always been interested in Gremlin. (I'm from Sheffield and always wanted to work there growing up!) Mark mentioned that he had just been interviewing Ciaran for the expansion disk (a free episodic PDF of extra content for the book) and that he's tried to get a hold of M.I.A Ian Martin to no avail.
How weird was that? Of the twitter users in all the world, I pick the one who has 'just' interviewed Ciaran.
Anyway, Mark turned out to be a great guy, he really pushes programming with kids education and has a genuine passion for retro games. I bought the book (there's a great spread on Hardwar with Patrick Phelan, Adrian Carless and some of the Gremlin QA team) and then found out Mark was doing an event in town for the book.
I told Mark I'd get him a pint if he signed my book when I came down. His reply was that there would perhaps be people more worthy of me getting their signatures there. (Shameless plug here but it is a great book btw. Funnily enough, even Mark is after the HW source in order to preserve it. He wants to do that with as many games as he can get his hands on).
Meanwhile, Gerald Krasner got back to me. There is a confidentiality clause at the bottom of the email, but this is not exactly the most sensitive information and I suspect that it comes as standard on all Begbies Traynor email. If a problem should arise however, I take full responsibility:
You are correct that I dealt with this Company when I was at Bartfields, although as far as I am aware, the source code would have remained in the Company under the control of the liquidator. On the basis that nobody acquired this from me, when the Company is dissolved, it becomes bona vacantia. The only way anyone could deal with this now is to resurrect the Company, with me being re-appointed as liquidator, and then make an offer to buy this code from the Company. I reckon the costs for doing this in total would be between £5,000 and £10,000 by the time we finish.
Before you consider this, however, I have no information as to the codes in question, so could supply no further information, even if the Company was resurrected because twelve months after completion of the liquidation, all records are destroyed in accordance with the appropriate resolution.
Before you consider this, however, I have no information as to the codes in question, so could supply no further information, even if the Company was resurrected because twelve months after completion of the liquidation, all records are destroyed in accordance with the appropriate resolution.
Anyone got ten grand to spare?
Also, Ciaran expressed his reluctance to resurrect the company as I had already mentioned this possibility with him. I informed Gerald that this course would not be being pursued and thanked him for his time.
Back on Twitter, Mark announced who would be attending the event. There would be some ex-gremlin programmers (including Ash Bennett and George Allen) and also the founders of Gremlin. Yes, Kevin Norburn and Ian Stewart.
The coincidences were stacking up. I was going to meet Ian! Also it turns out my current boss used to play Golf with Ian and Stephen Marshall Hilton, 20 odd years ago though.
I won the bid on the signed Hardwar. Ciaran asked me what to write. I said "Dear Lee, I hereby grant you the copyright to Hardwar, yours, Ian Stewart"
He laughed and said I'd have to ask Ian. I said funny you should say that!
Then Ian got back to me!
With regards Hardwar, you are correct in saying that I (Urbanscan) own the rights to the game and whilst I no longer have access to any contracts (long gone) it would have been unusual for Gremlin not to take ownership of source code at the end of a project!
I am in the process of locating source code for historic titles that could be enhanced and re-released, so maybe this could be an opportunity!
Is it worth us having a conversation?
Let me know and we can follow up.
I am in the process of locating source code for historic titles that could be enhanced and re-released, so maybe this could be an opportunity!
Is it worth us having a conversation?
Let me know and we can follow up.
So I told him I was attending the event and we arranged to meet there. I had a great evening (Friday 21st October 2016) and had a good chat with Ian as well as enjoying the rest of Mark's event, playing C64 games and chatting to everyone there.
Ian was totally the opposite of what I was expecting. I guess with my experience of certain businessmen, I expected a hardened man who wanted to get to the point. He actually came across as very humble and eager to listen. It was a pleasure to speak with him.
I spoke about the possibility of him releasing it 'as is'. I mentioned that the videos work locally and that the main exe can be ran with command line parameters for everything if you wanted to avoid using the hardman.exe for any reason and also that you'd need a wrapper like ogg-winmm (https://github.com/bangstk/ogg-winmm/releases) for CD Audio.
He actually genuinely seems to want some people capable of using the source to bring everything up to date with better visuals etc and to build on the game rather than just doing a straight up digital download.
So there you go. That is everything I have managed to do so far. And all the information I can give you.
I told Ian that Ciaran would be the man to speak to regarding the source. Maybe a few of the old modders like Wez could help if things manage to get off the ground? Or Andrew Fenn? Tim Howgego etc?
I've told Ciaran about what Ian said and asked his opinion on whether it would be mutually beneficial for Ian and himself to have a chat. Ciaran is away atm though and also moving house as I mentioned so I think he'll get back to me when he isn't so busy.
I think he's also looking at NMS and Elite Dangerous for reference as to what a modern day version could look like.
Ian and I should be talking further via email about possibilities.
As always, don't get your hopes up! I'm sorry I have to stress that. It is the most promising news for a long time, I think, but there are no guarantees.